Oprah’s Harry and Meghan Interview: Hour Two

Are you exhausted? This week has been exhausting. I feel like this is the closest I’ve ever been to living the 1936 abdication crisis. And I didn’t realize how tiring that would be! Okay, let’s go through the second half of Oprah’s interview with Harry and Meghan. As you know from the first post I wrote about the interview, Meghan appeared on her own for the first half of the interview and a couple minutes of the second half, and Harry joined her for 90% of the second half. There was some talk about Harry having worn his trusty grey suit for the interview – it’s the same suit he wore to Archie’s first photo call in Windsor Castle the week Archie was born.

PS: I love thinking about logistics for things, and this is something I have wondered about a LOT: how did Harry and Meghan pack and move their entire lives to Canada, and then to the United States, without anyone knowing? Did people know? Did they flee with 6 weeks’ worth of stuff (for their Canadian holiday over Christmas) and then just buy whatever else they needed until their things could be boxed up and shipped overseas? Or did they hire someone to pack up their lives and ship it all before/during the 6 week holiday? Harry had his military medals for the LA cemetery photoshoot! How empty is Frogmore Cottage?! I HAVE SO MANY QUESTIONS!!!!

What Prince Harry whispered to Meghan Markle before Archie photos

The palace is “perpetuating falsehoods” about Harry and Meghan.

Oprah asks Meghan if she thinks the palace will be surprised by what’s in the interview when they see it. Meghan responds by saying, “I don’t know how they could expect that after all of this time, we would still just be silent if there is an active role that the firm is playing in perpetuating falsehoods about us.” Meghan says that “there’s a lot that’s been lost already” and that she almost lost her name and her sense of identity.

When Meghan says that she almost lost her name, does she mean that she lost “Meghan Markle” in order to become “Meghan, Duchess of Sussex”? Because it seems like she is pretty attached to her title as The Duchess of Sussex. It’s confusing. I wish I could ask her follow-up questions.

Meghan is having a girl

At this point in the interview, Harry sits beside Meghan and stays for the rest of the interview. Harry answers Oprah’s question about what Meghan is having and Harry answers that she is having a girl. (This is the biological sex of the baby and not necessarily the baby’s gender, just wanted to point that out. I have a big problem with the concept of “gender reveals” because we don’t know until the child can tell us!)

Interesting wording re: “moving to Canada”

In a voiceover, Oprah says that in late 2019, “Harry and Meghan moved to Canada.” Either Oprah is misinformed or we were lied to – Harry and Meghan’s staff always said that they had gone to Canada (and they didn’t even say it was Canada!) for a six-week holiday over Christmas to spend time with Doria and get some away time after the birth of Archie and a hectic working year. So what’s the truth: did Harry and Meghan pack everything up and move to Canada while telling us they were on vacation (see above re: packing logistics!) or did they decide to make the move permanent after the story about them leaving was published in The Sun and they announced their intention to be half in-half out royals in early January?

Security

Oprah then says that the couple, having had their BRF-provided security removed while living in Canada in early 2020, and with the US border days away from closing, accepted Tyler Perry’s offer of a private jet, his LA house to live in, and (and this is new) security services for the couple paid for by Perry. Oprah says that Perry offered his home “as a temporary refuge“, which, given the immigration issues at the US/Mexico border during the Trump presidency, as well as the idea of seeking “refuge” from living in a friend’s massive estate in Victoria, is extremely bad optics. Are we supposed to feel bad for them? While a worldwide pandemic was raging and people were dying? Okay.

Harry says that they were no longer safe in Canada, given that the Daily Mail had revealed the exact location of the mansion they were staying in. So they (checks notes) moved to Tyler Perry’s very famous mansion in the paparazzi capital of the world? During a pandemic that the United States was struggling to fight? That doesn’t hold water. Also, as a Canadian, I feel like the fears they refer to are exaggerated. I know people in the area where they stayed, and the most people did was a friendly nod while passing on hiking trails. They were in an estate with a gate and fencing. It doesn’t sound as dire as they make it out to be.

Harry says that the BRF’s justification for removing Harry and Meghan’s UK-funded security was “a change in status”. This means that because they were no longer working members of the BRF, and they weren’t living overseas in a diplomatic capacity, then they didn’t qualify for security funded by the UK taxpayer. Harry and Meghan’s retort to this was, “When our status changed, did our risk level (for being attacked) also change?” and the answer they received was no, but that they could not expect the BRF/UK taxpayer to fund their security as non-working royals.

I don’t know if Meghan realizes what she says at this point, but she admits that they had been looking at leaving their full-time roles as members of the BRF for two years at the point when they actually left. That means that Harry and Meghan had been planning to leave the BRF, whether partly or fully, before they even got married in May 2018. That sort of undercuts Harry and Meghan’s arguments for leaving, which were lack of titles, racism faced by Meghan during and after the wedding, and jealousy from the BRF at how successfully Harry and Meghan were overseas. I’m not saying they couldn’t have been reasons in 2018, but they certainly weren’t at the level that they became once they were married. This seems like it was a plan from the outset.

Meghan says that she and Harry had considered living in the Commonwealth countries of New Zealand, Canada, and South Africa. Harry says that his biggest fear had been history repeating itself, by which he means the press intrusion that he believes led to the death of his mother, Diana, Princess of Wales. He says that the issues of social media and race exacerbated the issues that his mother had to face.

Later in the interview, Harry says that he never imagined that he would have his UK security removed, because he had been “born into this position and inherited the risk.” Meghan says that she wrote letters to the royal family saying that it was clear that her or Archie’s protection was not important to them, but that she begged for them to let Harry keep his UK security.

Race and racism

Harry says that he had spent years doing the work and the learning on race that he needed to do, and that he didn’t understand how common and bad racism was until he walked a day in Meghan’s shoes. Harry says that the UK press is “blatantly racist”. He says that he asked for calm from the UK press “once as a boyfriend, once as a husband, and once as a father.” When Oprah presses about whether the decision to leave was about lack of support from the BRF or racism from the UK press, and Harry says that it was a combination of both.

Regarding the comments about Archie’s skin colour, Harry says that he will never share the details. However, he then goes on to say that this conversation happened at the beginning of his relationship with Meghan and that the question asked was “What will the kids look like?” He also said that the family told Harry that there wasn’t enough money to protect Meghan and that she should continue acting and making money.

Family relations are strained

This whole section is pretty strange, given that Harry told James Corden a few weeks ago that he and his family got along fine.

Meghan says that she and Harry had been having conversations with the Queen about leaving their roles for two years by the time they actually left. I doubt this. If they had indicated that they were unhappy and wanted to leave before they were even married, why would the Queen have allowed such a massive, glamorous wedding for them? An engagement with Meghan on the Royal Train? Huge Commonwealth tours? It doesn’t make sense. I think that the Queen and Charles were aware that they wanted to leave some time before they actually did – maybe 6 months – but certainly not 2 years. It just doesn’t make sense.

Harry says that while they were in Canada in late 2019, Harry had three conversations with the Queen about their plans to leave, and two conversations with his father, Prince Charles, “before he stopped taking my calls.” That is a hugely inflammatory statement.

On the other hand, Harry says that he has a really good relationship with the Queen and that they have spoken more in the last year than in years past. Harry says that the relationship with Will right now is “space”.

Re: Charles, Harry says that Charles is taking his calls now, but there’s a lot of pain and hurt to work through.

The Little Mermaid

The Little Mermaid Live-Action Movie Cast | POPSUGAR Entertainment

Meghan tells Oprah that years ago, she was watching The Little Mermaid in Nottingham Cottage (Harry and Meghan’s home on the Kensington Palace grounds), and that the movie contains similarities to her life because she fell in love with a prince, lost her voice, and got her voice back in the end.

Mental health struggles

Harry says that he did not tell his family about the mental health struggles and suicidal thoughts that Meghan was having, because it wasn’t something that was done in his family. He says that he was ashamed of admitting it to them.

UK Press

Harry says that the BRF is linked with the UK press in a really toxic but symbiotic way, in which the family wines and dines and gives good stories to the press so that they will receive favourable coverage. Meghan says that the BRF invites the UK press to “holiday parties” at the palace, to wine and dine and curry favour with them. This was the reaction from royal reporters in the UK:

Jealousy

Harry says that the entire family was incredibly welcoming of Meghan when she first joined the family, but that after the very successful Australia/Fiji/Tonga/New Zealand tour, it felt like something shifted with the family and it may have been due to other family members’ jealousy of them.

Leaving the job

Oprah says that some people have said that Meghan and Harry had been planning to leave from the beginning of their relationship and that staying in the BRF for a couple of years was just done “to build the brand”. Meghan rejects this statement outright, saying that they had planned to be senior working members of the BRF for the rest of their lives. Again, as mentioned above, this doesn’t appear to match with Meghan and Harry’s comments about knowing that they wanted out two years before they left, which was before they had even married.

Meghan also says that she received no instructions on etiquette or how to be a princess. She says that no one told her how to cross her legs or even thought to ask if she knew the UK national anthem. She says that she Googled and memorized it herself, as she realized that it would be something she would need to know.

Oprah asks Harry whether he thinks he would have ever left the BRF if it weren’t for Meghan, and he says that he wouldn’t have. He says that he felt trapped and didn’t see a way out. He also says that his brother and father, being heirs to the British throne, are trapped in the institution and that he feels sorry for them.

Harry says that Netflix and Spotify were never part of the plan, but that it became clear very quickly when they left the UK and had their security removed that they had to start making money fast. He also says that without the inheritance Diana left him, they would not have survived the last year.

Final thoughts from Harry and Meghan

Harry says that he finds a lot of joy in spending time with Meghan and Archie. He says that when people leave their house, Archie says, “Drive safe!” Meghan says that her one regret is that she believed the palace when they said they would protect her. She says that her and Harry’s love story is “greater than any fairy tale you’ve ever read.”

Things Oprah didn’t ask about

Here are some more things I think Oprah should have asked about (or maybe she did and they were left on the cutting room floor):

  • Meghan’s miscarriage and recovery from it – I think that would have been very healing for a lot of people to hear about how she dealt with it.
  • Meghan’s recovery from suicidal thoughts and depression – presumably she got help? Again, I think learning about how Meghan came out of that would help a lot of people who struggle with mental health.
  • Private jets! Harry’s main focus is the environment and building a more eco-friendly future. So why did/do he and Meghan take so many private jets? In 2018, they took four private jets in 11 days.
  • Meghan’s friend Jessica Mulroney becoming embroiled in a racism and white privilege scandal during the Black Lives Matter protests last summer. Given Meghan’s experiences of racism in the UK, how did that affect her? Is she still friends with Jessica?

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4 thoughts on “Oprah’s Harry and Meghan Interview: Hour Two

  1. I saw somewhere online this week that “if someone makes a racist comment about your child, you knock their teeth out. You don’t wait 3 years and then tell your wife.” Harry and Meghan lobbed a grenade at the RF and neglected to share the context or even who said it. Instead of making 1 person the villain, they decided to make everyone a villain. So, now suspicion has clouded, not just the RF, but the entire country of England. Conversations have expanded to the Commonwealth and their leaders have had to make statements. All because of a comment someone, somewhere, sometime made that perhaps was initiated by Harry himself, but he never shut down.

    Where was Harry in all of this? His wife was pregnant and suicidal and he did nothing. He didn’t mention this to his family or close friends. He didn’t confide in Meghan’s mother (a social worker), or even her close friends. He didn’t contact Heads Together charity (of which he partly founded and was patron of) and ask for help. He didn’t even contact his own therapist to ask for help for his wife. Instead, he had her go and ask HR, and he signed up to film a mental health docu-series with Oprah for Apple TV. We saw him snap at her after Archie’s birth when she turned around to ask him a question on the Palace balcony for Trooping the Color. Video coverage shows her looking close to tears. Why was he so insensitive then, to his postpartum wife, and now blaming everyone else for her mental health issues?

    This is Harry’s fault. Not anyone else’s. He didn’t prepare Meghan for life in the RF, and he didn’t support her when she had suicidal thoughts. When he was an adult and third in line to the throne, he dressed as a Nazi, made racial slurs to his army comrades (on video no less), and had the Palace clean up his mess. He still has never apologized for that behavior. He has the gall to go on prime time television now and call his own family racist. It beggars belief.

    Neither one of them, in the 2 hour+ chat, showed contriteness for anything they had done. Not one apology for past racism. Now, because he married a bi-racial woman, he gets a free pass because he’s a beacon of woke culture. Their extreme privilege and lack of self-awareness is appalling. They spouted off obnoxious statements that have been debunked by journalists around the world, and even the casual Royal observer. Everything was to make them look like a victim. There were so many missed opportunities by Oprah to ask about Meghan’s mental health and how she got through that dark time. She never asked Harry about his own racist behavior and he never acknowledged it, nor apologized. 

    In the wake of the interview, it has come out that Meghan called ITV to complain about Piers Morgan and he quit. It has come out that H&M’s PR called up the BBC and warned them not to have a panel  of “old white men” for interview analysis. So, now they’re stomping on free speech and suggesting racism on the BBC, all while hiring a white man – Ben Browning – to head up the Netflix portion of Archewell Productions. No woman or person of color. It’s staggering how tone deaf and ridiculous they are. 

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Hi, so I’ve been meaning to comment on this earlier and is now almost a week later. I can’t decide if this whole thing is a vendetta to avenge Diana’s treatment by the BRF (and real and / or perceived bad treatment by the BRF towards Meghan), if they are really that dumb / daft to believe they could say all this stuff while keeping the family relations as they were before the interview, if this is just brand building in the US no matter the consequences to family relations, or if either M, H or both are master manipulators of each other and also of many others, and if so, with what end (many accuse M of social climbing and gold digging and even compared her to Debbie in the Adams Family Values 2 but the truth is that this doesn’t look like the best strategy for that)?
    Going back to this interview, in the first points you recapped it’s patent the huge contradiction they incurred when talking about their exit plan. On the one hand they’re saying that racists undertones from the family and courtiers plus blatant racism in the UK media (which objectively, there were racists stories published by part of the UK media) that in turn caused mental strain to M made them leave the UK. On the other hand they’re also saying that H had said to the Queen something about leaving the BRF 2 years ago, which for anyone who can do basic math means 2018 and before their actual wedding, plus H also said he respects his grandmother too much (doesn’t look like it) to blindside her and he spoke with her about this 3 times over the phone before Jan. 2020. Is this one of those cases where the truth wants to come up to light from the subconcious, so it can expose a lie which in this case is that the reason for leaving was overt racism and mental health struggles, while the actual truth is that this was heavily pre-planned, probably since 2 years ago before the wedding? And if so, again what is their end game here? Did she convince him to leave? Or did he marry her after they agreed she would be his ally to leave (more on that later)?
    The likelyhood this was heavily pre-planned would explain why they allowed Oprah to say they “moved” to Canada when back then it was only supposed to be a vacation (I guess they told her what she then said in voiceover), why they didn’t stay in Canada or chose to live in another Commonwealth country (didn’t enter in the plan in the first place / couldn’t work for whatever the plan is), and answers your question about how much of what they had in Frogmore Cottage was packed to take it with them to Canada (and if you think about it, maybe they didn’t need to pack everything to take it with them for those 6 weeks, considering they were back in the UK on March 2020 and they could also pack other things to take with them to Canada and then the US, in fact M bolted from the UK before H so who knows what she carried with her). Everyone knows Canada is a lot safer than the US in all senses and they weren’t living in the middle of a big city, so to claim that the DM exposed them to a big security risk by revealing their location (and I think someone argued that they were partly to blame for that revelation but I can’t remember why) is disingenous.
    H complaining and whinning about his security sounds entitled and arrogant, and like you said it doesn’t make sense. If security is a concern, why would you go to the US where there are more guns than habitants? Why would you go to L.A. where there is a celebrity culture and your location can be more easily exposed? If the idea is to go unnoticed by the media or less stalked by it, why not move to Iowa, Idaho (some celebrities are doing that and also California is becoming too expensive, I think), or a regular size city like I don’t know, Minneapolis, or even one like Chicago that is big but without major celebrity culture? Also, H seems unable to comprehend that security has major costs for either the UK, Canada or any other country, and none of those countries will pay it for him without receiving representation duties in exchange. Maybe now that he has to pay for it he realizes how much it costs and that’s also why he wants the UK to pay for it. But also he doesn’t seem to get the basic idea that the UK officers in charge of it would have to come back and forth between both countries leaving their personal lives in the UK on hold, and also risking themselves because they actually can’t fire their arms in the US without permits that they won’t get as a foreign police force, otherwise if they fire their guns and kill someone they will be arrested. In this interview there are a lot of examples of tone deafness and this is one of those.
    So H refused to say the name of whoever said the racist thing and yet fell into a contradiction with M because M said it happened several times while she was pregnant while H is like “I’ll never repeat that conversation”. Conversation in singular, mind you. The one thing they agreed on is that H is the one who had those conversations / the conversation. So it should be H’s version the correct one, right, since he is the one who actually had the conversation? Who knows, but he should have revealed / should reveal all the details because the speculation has clouded almost all his family (he later told Oprah that his grandparents weren’t the ones who did this, jeez like he should have said that on camera too, thanks a lot H), plus why on earth is he protecting this racist person? If you and your wife are upset enough to leave like you did, wouldn’t you be upset enough to out this person to a worldwide audience? Like also you should have been upset enough to call out this person the moment it happened, but that’s another story. Btw, Oprah also failed to ask H how he didn’t fully understood racism until he met M, when he had 2 racists incidents that we know of (the 2005 nazi uniform at the fancy party incident that, according to “Battle of the Brothers” by Robert Lacey, William should have prevented H about it but said nothing and later H resented that and the fact William didn’t support him publicly against the media backlash; and the 2006 incident with the fellow pakistani descend soldier and a racial slur that maybe H said jokingly but was still a slur and H had to go to some racism course as disciplinary action).
    The mental help struggles, like the racism thing, also became a point of contention even though some of us are open minded to believe both things could have happened. People are questioning how come H, who received therapy himself some years ago (like he admitted around 2017), who was linked to the Heads Together initiative (which he promoted back in the day precisely by talking about having to seek out therapy, encouraged by William btw), and who was also linked to other mental health initiatives, couldn’t find mental help for M or claim he didn’t know what to do? Like you said, Oprah failed to ask if by now M had received help. It actually looks like both H and M need it a lot. Certainly M talking about the Little Mermaid that way didn’t make her sound too well for some.
    The UK press parties, I feel like H and M misconstrued stuff that happens and they weren’t privy to (actually during the interview it looked like H really didn’t have any idea how the courts that supports his family works). The Queen and the Queen Mother never gave interviews but rumor is they had a select group of journalists who would transmit certain opinions to the public. Diana tipped certain photographers (I don’t know how much of that happened before or after the divorce but there was some of that) and what is certain is that she and Fergie were speaking with an increasingly smaller number of reporters like Richard Kay of DM and Ingrid Seward. But to go from there to parties hosted by royals on Palace grounds sounds exaggerated, if it were true more than one royal biographer, specially one who favours the republic like Andrew Morton, would have reported it already.
    Some of the stuff said later looked like repeats of stuff Diana said or implied back in the day and is hard to tell whether they just copied Diana or if these things sound like repeats because both cases involve the same people or scenarios. H says he felt let down by Charles, which sounds like a repeat of how Diana felt regarding Charles, and the phone call story sounds like the kind of petty behaviour Charles had with Diana at one point. When he said nobody in the family talks about mental health problems he also echoed what Diana said in her tapes to Andrew Morton, that it seemed no one in the family ever went through post partum depression or cried, etc., (it also sounds untrue nowadays when in 2017 he said William encouraged him to seek help). He then said the family’s attitude towards them changed after the Australia, NZ, Fiji, etc., tour, which sounds eerily similar to the jealousy Diana experienced from Charles after a similar tour (which also goes to show that unlike what H said, The Crown isn’t all fiction since they accurately portrayed this incident, btw are H and M watching The Crown like he admitted, to take notes?). H didn’t specify the persons that were jealous, so everybody ended up in the same lot, and we can’t know if it was Charles like the last time or someone else. This and M’s claims that they originally intended to be part of the BRF for the rest of their lives (echoing what she said in the engagement interview although also contradicting what she just said about 2 years of conversations regarding their desire to leave the BRF), linken with my earlier point that maybe H found in M a woman willing to help him take down the BRF and in particular Charles, as vendetta for Diana’s treatment by him and the family / institution. On the other hand, if this isn’t a vendetta, H leaves this interview sounding like a not so bright and rather weak guy who apparently couldn’t leave the family like he wanted to without having a wife holding his hand like a baby, even if that meant dragging her to a media circus and exposing her to be the one who would bear more of the brunt for the public pushback against this decision, both because women are always blamed for these things and because the way people see it “none of this happened until she showed up in his life”. Under that premise he really didn’t do her any favours by not leaving the family while single and I must say that if it were me I couldn’t remain with the guy, I would feel used.
    It’s hard to believe Netflix and Spotify weren’t part of the plan from the get go, considering he already had some contact with Apple TV through Oprah for the documentary they are making, and M past and present Hollywood connections (plus he plugged M vocal skils to Disney’s Bob Igger at The Lion King movie premiere). I remember back in Jan. 2020 a person I know who supported their move told me they must have run their numbers and realized they could live well by their own. Now H makes it sound that he didn’t have a plan and these deals were suggested by a friend. This is linked with Charles not taking his calls, apparently H was given some money and told there would be more until they could find their footing but rumor is he was calling Charles asking for money and that’s why Charles stopped taking his calls. H had 2 and a half months to figure out what to do to start becoming financially independent plus he’s a grown 36 years old man, but it seems he assumed daddy would keep footing his bills even after he would no longer do the job the family required of him to support him. This also reeks tone deafness considering people have lost jobs and more because of thr pandemic, yet he’s complaining his family cut him off while he had several millions that he most likely wasn’t using before.
    On a small note, H said something about not ridding bikes as a small child, which is very untrue because the Internet found the pics with Charles, Diana, both and some with William too, of him riding bikes. Someone told me he meant in public places like Archie at the beach and not royal grounds only, well if that was the intention that’s not how it came across. On another small note, M claiming not knowing about royalty when her own blog The Tig had an article commenting Will and Kate 2011 wedding, and 2 friends who spoke around 2017 of her interest in the BRF (even Andrew Morton reported she watched Diana’s funeral with friends while crying) is an exercise in cinicism. Also, only their rabid fans buy that theirs is the greatest love story, I can think of several that are better.
    I agree with many points that Lyla said and your final thoughts. Oprah didn’t ask about the miscarriage which is odd considering it was M who revealed it in the first place, and to apparently “stop the stigma about it”. Oprah didn’t ask about Travalyst vs the private jet controversy, it seems the chickens were the only ecological reference of the night. Oprah didn’t ask about Jessica Mulroney the same way she didn’t ask about the nazi uniform. I was going to say this anyways, it looked to me that Oprah is a lackluster interviewer and I can’t believe she had a 20 years career as a daytime talk show host with such weak line of questioning. As for H and M, they either need a lot of therapy, I’m talking about years of it, or they are borderline very dumb, specially H, or there is a more complex plan here we aren’t privy to (it seems the BRF is also wondering what’s their goal in all this), sadly doesn’t look like they will stop yet.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. I Think Meghan Markle is in same League as Amber Heard, Patrizia Reggiani, Melania Trump, Hilaria Baldwin, Kimberly Guilfoyle, Elaine Chao, Jameela Jamil, Lara Trump, Heather Mills,

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  4. I Think Prince Harry is in same League as Armie Hammer, Donald Trump Jr., Eric Trump, Jared Kushner, James Murdoch, Lachlan Murdoch, Jordan Belfort,

    Like

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